Digital Speaker System Controller

[bowtie427ss]

I also intended to mention that in the $1200-$1500 range Ashly is well worth considering. I use a protea 3.24 in my gig rack, I've used Ashly amplifiers and analog crossovers for many years, very quiet, clean, and the best customer service you'll ever get in pro audio.

[Old Guy]

Check over in alt.pro.live-sound.

Dozens of guys using Behringer 2496 very few probs. The sold out and were out of stock for months, obviously they can't get you one under those conditions.

But normally if you have a problem you get an instant replacement. Much better customer service than I get from BSS.
Your experience wasn't good, I understand.

But when an acquaintance had a problem (not with a DCX BTW)he got an email and a swapout right away. I'd hardly call that bad service.

[scott fitlin]

I did something last night that blew my mind!

Im in the procees of going basck to all analog processing, but, I still have the BSS-366T running my full range, which is 15,s horns and tweeters.

I have a three band program EQ that uses a 12AX7A vacuum tube, and I was given a vintage Amperex 12AX7A new in the box, never used, from the 1960,s to put in it. OMG, I have never heard such acoustic, natural and beautiful sounding midrange come out of my speakers ever. The low mids sound so real, so natural and breathy. The transient smack of the drum notes is tremendous. The highs are sparkly, and sweet, and airy. The bottom end is nice and tight, and realistic sounding, no overhang, or bloat.

I have never heard any digital system sound anything like this, and my Altecs sound so vivid.

ANALOG RULES!

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by scotty j:
ANALOG RULES!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Yeah, and get a horse too!

I have heard some excellent tube stuff. Out of hundreds of system, I'm still not convinced tupbes are any better. More romantic certainly.

Bottom line is if you like it, it's what you want.

And digital is still in it's infancy. Tubes are mature.

I have a couple of Audio Research amps here I'll blind test against any tube stuff. Yes I know you could buy 10 tube amps for what they cost. That's not the debate.

[scott fitlin]

I kind of understand what your saying, only everyone else has said it to me already!

Im not debating the accuracy, or romanticism of tube sound, or whether its technically better or not!

I just am really overwhelmed by how good it sounds. Music has something to it with the tubes in the signal chain. And very dynamic sounding as well.

I know that when I put a Urei 525 in place of my BSS-366T, my system sounds warmer, and richer. And the bass is fuller sounding, and theres a big difference in how the top end sounds. Whats better? In my system, whatever I like best is whats better for me.

Im in agreement with you that digital audio is still in its infancy. 10 years ago, I couldnt stand DSP, especially the BSS-388 that was pretty brand new on the market, so, I know DSP has improved to a great degree. But, it still has a far ways to go. At least in my humble opinion.

For me, I cant be totally satisfied with digital audio, until its completely indiscernible from analog audio, and presents recordings with naturalness and harmonic rightness, even though this last statement can be interpreted as very subjective on my part.

To me, this debate is quite similar to my still using Altec speaker components and cabinets. Many tell me the Altecs are ancient, they cant take any power, there are superior drivers with much higher power handling and lower distortion available, made using technically advanced materials and designs that just werent available 30yrs ago.

And some how, when people come into my place to hear my rig, they look at the " antiques " and ask me " How do you get it to sound like this "?

And, 5 years from now, when they have DSP that sounds 20 times better than what we have available now, I will probably try that, and when they actually get it right, thats when I will retire my " antiques " !

I have to say, I feel they will get it right at some point! Just wonderting when, as we are already a good number of years into the technology.

In the defense of DSP, I will also say, the best results I have heard to date have been through my vintage, and considered outdated by todays standards, Altec speakers.

To each their own! But mine is still analog at the present time,

[Old Guy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scotty j:
Whats better? In my system, whatever I like best is whats better for me.[/QB][/QUOTE

OG: I think that falls in pretty close to my opinion


I have to say, I feel they will get it right at some point! Just wonderting when, as we are already a good number of years into the technology.

OG: I hang out in some photography groups on Usenet- I have Nikon gear F2 thru F5 series. 5 years ago they were saying how ****** digital cameras were.

Now Nikon no longer makes film cameras. They sold off the maintenance to a third party. A lot can change in a few years.

In the defense of DSP, I will also say, the best results I have heard to date have been through my vintage, and considered outdated by todays standards, Altec speakers.

OG: I'd rather have a good cheap amp and the best transducers than **** transducers and the best electronics.

To each their own! But mine is still analog at the present time, ]

OG: Frankly mine too. I just think digital is inherently superior and will win eventually, just like it did in film.

When a technology is new, the bean counters get it first. It's used to make stuff cheaper to increase profits, ie active plastic speakers. Only after it matures does it get to "luxury" level products. There are good DSP's out there but I wouldn't call them "luxury" level yet.

Luxury level IMHO is having ten times what you need not just double. There is digital stuff like that but it's affordable only to NASA.

[scott fitlin]

Nasa?

The best DSP speaker processor available in the marketplace that "I" can use in here is considered by some to be the Lake Contour.

I heard the Lake, I think it sounds good, providing you take the neccesary time to dial it in properly, but it wasnt heads and heels above the BSS 366t. And, the fact that one MUST use a laptop to set it up, and make changes and adjustments didnt appeal to me the most, either.

Another thing I would like to point out about DSP, is that I cant stand buying a product thats new and top of the line, and the following year, its already outdated and obsolete! Planned obsolescence, maybe?

Then, much to my amazement, DSP processors seem to be far more glitchy, they can lock up and freeze. Another little thing that happened this summer, and I didnt like it at all, was a power blip, like a momentary nanosecond power surge, or interuption, and the BSS crashed and began going through its turn on sequence rebooting up, so my sound crashed! This NEVER happens with my analog crossovers. Sure, you see a momentary flicker in the lights, but the analog system keeps going, and going, and....

About sound quality and speakers and electronics. There is something very special about the way my Altec/JBL system sounds with a customized Urei 525 for the full range, and a customized crown VFX-2A for the subs and super tweeters. Very clean, EXTREMELY dynamic, highly resolving, super vivid and realistic, and sweet, smooth and non fatiguing, and most of all, natural to my ears.

You know, I would also like to add, they have this recording format, similar to CD, called SACD, and SACD,s sound really great, much better than a regular CD, and has many of the attributes of vinyl, with the clean of digital, but, they didnt make it really available to the marketplace with tons of titles to buy on SACD discs. So, lets say they DO have DSP thats all the way there good!

What good is it if we cant have it and buy it? I dont really want to wait another ten years for super high quality amazing sounding signal processing!

I also subscribe to the school of thought that says the measurements dont always tell the whole story, and are not indicative of how something sounds, let alone sounds good.

Altec speakers were and are of the highest quality. It never ceases to amaze and amuse me, how young people who werent around when Altec dominated the market, and never heard Altec speakers, and have no idea about what Altec speakers even are, are so taken by what they hear in my place when they hear Altec speakers! " I`ve never heard speakers that sound so good, and so real " is not an uncommon statement in my place.

They are totally confused when they find out that some of my stuff is as old as their parents, maybe older!

[Old Guy]

Most of the complaints you make about DSP were true about computers and have been fixed there, unless you run Windows like I do.

The Lake is hardly state of the art. By the time anything makes it to market it is at least a year old, possibly older. Prototypes have to be made and tested, all the corporates have to approve, and so forth.

NASA can afford to have stuff built (or at least used to be able) to it's specs was what I meant- I in no way meant there was off the shelf stuff. I would be willing to bet there is a small company somewhere in the world building stuff better than Lake. There are just lots of brains running around these days. And smaller corporations can bring product to market quicker.

The car you buy today was probably designed 3-4 years ago.

As far as planned obsolescence- nope. People said the same about computers. The truth was computers got better very fast. 4.7 mhz to 10 to 25 to 100 to 300 to 600 to over 1 ghz to several times that now. And while they got better they got cheaper and more stable.

The same could happen for DSP, but it will take longer. Everybody wanted a computer, it was funded by a large market. Not quite so with DSP- there is just not the financial reward for pushing the envelope as there was with computers. But performance WILL improve and prices will come down.

[scott fitlin]

I see your point, but, as I said before, analog still sounds better to me, so for the time being, I remain analog, until such a time they offer serious DSP that really sounds right. Whatever my ears deem right to be.

I want to add, when I installed DSP into my system, it wasnt just put it in and thats it. I spent hours and weeks tweaking till I felt I had squeezed as much as I could out of it. It works, and sounds quite good through Altecs, but still not as good as I want or expect.

OTOH, every so many years they offer something new and highly touted by the industry, and Im of the experimental nature, so Ill probably endeavor to use the next generation of DSP too.

Nuff said, cheers OG,

[Old Guy]

Agreed we've said it all. We'll revisit the subject in a year or two. Drinks on me.